PCT aromatizing confusion

[surtr]

Thought I had an understanding of aromatizing steroids and compounds to stay away from on use, but the PCT for them is confusing me. The more I read it seems the worse it gets.

1.For aromatizing steroids which produce progesterone into the system (tren,deca) what should be used for PCT and what should not? How does this work in conjunction with Test which usually forms the base of a cycle. Since you use a certain PCT for that (Nolva, Clomid) how do you not use it when combining them in a cycle with aromatizing ones? What prevents the need for them I guess is what I'm asking. Thanks for your knowledge and time.

[misterbigg]

There is "estrogen rebound" post cycle because exogeneous testosterone is removed before the natural testosterone has a chance to ramp up.

But there is no "progesterone rebound"; The proper way to PCT is not to build up prolactin in the first place. Cabergoline is the one route. Excess converstion to estrogen can cause progesterone related side effects so keeping estrogen under control is another way.

If you aren't prone to the side effects you might not need to worry about it all.

The best PCT in general is to make sure you are using 500 IU of HCG *during* the cycle (because all good cycles have a testosterone base) to prevent atrophy in the first place this will give you the speediest possible recovery. During PCT you use a SERM (Nolvadex, Toremifene) and you could also start an AI (Arimidex, Letrozole, Aromasin) just before the cycle ends to make sure there is no excess estrogen floating around.

These are largely my opinions, double check everything for yourself.

Comments / constructive criticisms welcome.

[Husker]

There is "estrogen rebound" post cycle because exogeneous testosterone is removed before the natural testosterone has a chance to ramp up.

But there is no "progesterone rebound"; The proper way to PCT is not to build up prolactin in the first place. Cabergoline is the one route. Excess converstion to estrogen can cause progesterone related side effects so keeping estrogen under control is another way.

If you aren't prone to the side effects you might not need to worry about it all.

The best PCT in general is to make sure you are using 500 IU of HCG *during* the cycle (because all good cycles have a testosterone base) to prevent atrophy in the first place this will give you the speediest possible recovery. During PCT you use a SERM (Nolvadex, Toremifene) and you could also start an AI (Arimidex, Letrozole, Aromasin) just before the cycle ends to make sure there is no excess estrogen floating around.

These are largely my opinions, double check everything for yourself.

Comments / constructive criticisms welcome.


Perfectly said.

[surtr]

Thanks for the replies so far, you're input is appreciated.


Ok lets say a 12 week cycle of 350 mg test-enan/week and 350mg tren-ace/week.
Run HCG 250iu of HCG 2x a week and then begins PCT 2 weeks after cessation of test-enan. What would that be in the case of these two compounds?

week 1-12
350mg of test-enan
350mg of tren-ace
500iu of HCG

where does the Arimidex, Letrozole, Aromasin fit in and end; and when does the Nolva begin and end?

also would you mind giving suggested amounts please.

[domtheitalian]

from my studies letro, arimidex, aromasin, (at around .25 mg ed or eod)for the test enanthate... and for the tren you run caber to prevent progesterone sides... at around .25 mg 2 times a week... i beleive

run ur hcg the way you said and nolva two weeks after you end test enanthate.... some say 40/40/20/20; others say just 20/20/20/20

[james629]

do you still need the novla if you have adex?

[Husker]

YES you need both. The Nolva is there to get rid of the Gyno and prevent it in its own way by blocking the estrogen receptors. The AI's are there to prevent it. Nolva also works to get your Natural Test production up and going too as I understand it. The HCG, Clomid, and Nolva are there to kick start all the stuff that was turned off or at least turned down during cycle. I am not that good at explaining the science because I would butcher it. Bigg' could probably get into it a lot better. But yes, you need all of it.

[misterbigg]

I would increase the testosterone dosage, 350mg sounds low if you are also doing Tren at 350mg. Disclaimer, I haven't used Trenbolone yet.

If you can get 10ml of Testosterone Propionate (costs approximately one bill) you can have an easier PCT by switching to the short ester for the last 12 days.

I will post my Testosterone Cycle Example in the public forum for everyone.

[misterbigg]

As promised:

Testosterone-Only Cycle COMPLETE (http://thesourcecheck.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2615)

Full instructions for PCT.

[surtr]

Thanks. This helps alot.

[misterbigg]

week 1-12
350mg of test-enan
350mg of tren-ace
500iu of HCG

where does the Arimidex, Letrozole, Aromasin fit in and end; and when does the Nolva begin and end?

also would you mind giving suggested amounts please.

As far as testosterone enanthate dosage goes, 437mg per week is a reasonable amount, and my testosterone-only cycle example does just that.

Have you used trenbolone before? Its the king of side effects. You said you are using trenbolone acetate or did you mean trenbolone enanthate? Because you have a long-estered testosterone and a short estered trenbolone. The shorter estered trenbolone will require at minimum, injections every other day. I would recommend daily injections to keep the spike in blood concentration down.

For trenbolone acetate dosage, 50mg per day is a "beginners" dose (and I use the term loosely, lol).

If you are dead set on using Trenbolone, I would suggest either you switch to all testosterone propionate and trenbolone acetate with daily injections (this is what I would do personally) or use testosterone enanthate, testosterone propionate and trenbolone enanthate (a less painful choice). Use the dosing schedule in my testosterone cycle example and add in 200mg of trenbolone enanthate for every 250mg of testosterone enanthate. This is equivalent to 350mg of trenbolone per week. Stop using the trenbolone two weeks before your last testosterone injection.

You would want to use 25mcg of T3 daily and 0.5mg Cabergoline every four days during a cycle that includes trenbolone.

If you get gyno while you are taking trenbolone you should stop using trenbolone immediately when you begin Nolvadex, since Nolvadex should not be taken with trenbolone. Since you now know you are prone to gyno, for your next cycle that includes both testosterone and trenbolone you will need an aromatase inhibitor from the very beginning so that Nolvadex will not be needed during the cycle. These rules apply equally to testosterone and nandrolone ("Deca").

The Letrozole only fits in when you are using huge amounts of aromatizing steroids and you are super sensitive to estrogen conversion. Its the most powerful aromatase inhibitor and is fairly hard on the body so it is only used as a last resort. You shouldn't need it.

Disclaimer: I have not used trenbolone, this is only my opinion. Double check all facts before making a decision.

[dohnnwahnn]

As promised:

Testosterone-Only Cycle COMPLETE (http://thesourcecheck.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2615)

Full instructions for PCT.

Biggs,

You are the man!