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  • #16
    Tren should not make u tired. Usually the opposite. Some guys call it trensomnia. Lol
    Inspector Jacques Clouseau: "There is a time to laugh and a time not to laugh, and this is not one of them."

    "If i want to use a suppliment i take steroids"- Stomp

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    • #17
      My resting heart rate is 58. My blood pressure has always been bad I've been on medication for it since early 20s and I just turned 35. Lately it's been 140/80 ish. I know you say it shouldn't be making me tired but I see a lot of people online saying that it messes with their thyroid and can even mess up serotonin levels I'm wondering if just low thyroid is one of the reasons why I really haven't been losing as much body fat as I expected and also the lethargy during the day especially between 2 p.m. and 8 p.m. is the worst I wake up at 5 or even 6 and I'm fine until about 1 and then my energy is just gone I'm wondering if I should try adding some T3 at maybe 50 micrograms? but then again I haven't even had a blood test so I'm not sure also did the prolactin levels being so high from not running caber have something to do with the fatigue. Idk all I know is I cant imagine running another 8 to 12 weeks and definitely can't imagine bulking on 600mg when 100mg EOD is seemingly causing this. I mean it feels like someone drugged me every evening like I took 8mg of Xanax or something.
      im not real and nothing i say matters.

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      • #18
        Maybe thyroid but could be a number of things. Maybe high blood sugar. Have you added anything recently that may have consided with the lethargy? Nolva?
        Inspector Jacques Clouseau: "There is a time to laugh and a time not to laugh, and this is not one of them."

        "If i want to use a suppliment i take steroids"- Stomp

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Kluso View Post
          Maybe thyroid but could be a number of things. Maybe high blood sugar. Have you added anything recently that may have consided with the lethargy? Nolva?
          Only thing iIhabe changed was upping my adex to 1mg a day and 20mg of nolva because my right gland started swelling like a crazy.
          im not real and nothing i say matters.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by thebaron1 View Post
            My resting heart rate is 58. My blood pressure has always been bad I've been on medication for it since early 20s and I just turned 35. Lately it's been 140/80 ish. I know you say it shouldn't be making me tired but I see a lot of people online saying that it messes with their thyroid and can even mess up serotonin levels I'm wondering if just low thyroid is one of the reasons why I really haven't been losing as much body fat as I expected and also the lethargy during the day especially between 2 p.m. and 8 p.m. is the worst I wake up at 5 or even 6 and I'm fine until about 1 and then my energy is just gone I'm wondering if I should try adding some T3 at maybe 50 micrograms? but then again I haven't even had a blood test so I'm not sure also did the prolactin levels being so high from not running caber have something to do with the fatigue. Idk all I know is I cant imagine running another 8 to 12 weeks and definitely can't imagine bulking on 600mg when 100mg EOD is seemingly causing this. I mean it feels like someone drugged me every evening like I took 8mg of Xanax or something.
            If you work from 4 to 9, but wake up at 5 or 6 am, then . . . no wonder you're tired. When are you sleeping? My advice is simply to make time for sleep, naps, whatever you have to do to get enough rest. Eventually, training hard and running tren, which can keep you up, will make you very tired if you don't rest. Don't get stuck in that rut of slamming espresso, coffee, etc. - that is a sure way to burn out your adrenals. I take a pre-workout with a somewhat large dose of caffeine before my workout, but on non-training days - and maybe take an additional day or two off from training - I take it easy, sipping on a little tea or kombucha after each meal. Sometimes work requires a little more caffeine, but my point is that you should use larger doses only when necessary, and just small doses, to stimulate digestion, keep you out of a food coma, when you can avoid it. Drinking too much caffeine is catabolic, unless you're going to the gym. It can be hard to sleep on tren, but to feel your best and make good gains you have to carve out time to sleep when tired, even if it's a nap, etc. Like anything else, it's a sacrifice; you'll have to cut out some other thing in order to get your sleep, something which a lot of guys are understandably reluctant to do, because being unconscious is indeed kind of a waste of time, even if it does feel good in the moment.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by thebaron1 View Post
              Kluso this is actually my first run with tren. Im currently running 100mg EOD with 300mgs of test e. So far I definitely feel the strength and aggression to power through workouts but the longer I have been on it I've almost noticed my hunger getting HARDER to keep under control and I am cutting and pretty aggressively. 1200 to 1500 calorie a day DEFICIT. Cardio 4x a week fasted and weights 4 times a week.

              Is the hunger part the reason why I don't hear of more people bulking on tren? I mean if it's so much more anabolic than anything else wouldn't you ALWAYS want to bulk with it? My main concern is strictly my temper in possibly running it in a bulk.

              I am a self employed personal trainer so I do like the idea of staying leaner and ripped if I can still add mass. That's one reason id considered primo. I have little interest in bulking up tiI I look smooth and then having to cut a bunch of fat.
              I agree that it's no fun to gain fat on a bulk just to have to shed it for the summer. The old days of bulk in the winter and then cut in the summer are a thing of the past in my opinion. About 8 or 9 years ago I just decided to stay lean all year round and I've been much happier and feel a lot better......and look much better. Just remember fat doesn't turn into muscle and muscle does not turn into fat. You really have to figure out what your goals are. You can bulk or cut on just about anything. It goes back to diet.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Ripitup View Post

                I agree that it's no fun to gain fat on a bulk just to have to shed it for the summer. The old days of bulk in the winter and then cut in the summer are a thing of the past in my opinion. About 8 or 9 years ago I just decided to stay lean all year round and I've been much happier and feel a lot better......and look much better. Just remember fat doesn't turn into muscle and muscle does not turn into fat. You really have to figure out what your goals are. You can bulk or cut on just about anything. It goes back to diet.
                I really think trying to stay lean on a bulk is cutting yourself short. For most possible muscle gain you really need to be in a big calorie surplus. Sure you can still gain by doing minicuts and keeping calories just above maintenence but imo you will not gain as much new muscle. I mean if you are happy with your current size than sure stay lean. But we cant deny what has worked for years and years. I think it also depends on if you cycle or blast and cruise. If you get to 20%bf on a winter bulk on cycle, there is no way you will keep all that new muscle on a cut without gear. It really only works of you stay on year round.
                ​​​​​

                ​​​​
                Inspector Jacques Clouseau: "There is a time to laugh and a time not to laugh, and this is not one of them."

                "If i want to use a suppliment i take steroids"- Stomp

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Kluso View Post

                  I really think trying to stay lean on a bulk is cutting yourself short. For most possible muscle gain you really need to be in a big calorie surplus. Sure you can still gain by doing minicuts and keeping calories just above maintenence but imo you will not gain as much new muscle. I mean if you are happy with your current size than sure stay lean. But we cant deny what has worked for years and years. I think it also depends on if you cycle or blast and cruise. If you get to 20%bf on a winter bulk on cycle, there is no way you will keep all that new muscle on a cut without gear. It really only works of you stay on year round.
                  ​​​​​

                  ​​​​
                  I agree. There are multiple ways to skin the cat. However, I hear a lot of guys say that they are going to bulk up which normally includes fat gain and gives an even larger appearance. So you're gaining muscle and gaining fat. The muscle gain, combined with the fat gain gives you your bulk cycle. Then you hear people saying that after the bulk they will convert the fat to muscle which is not even possible because fat doesn't turn into muscle, the same way muscle doesn't turn to fat. How many times have you heard someone say that they stopped working out for whatever reason, maybe an injury, and then due to not being able to work out combined with potentially not sticking clean eating, they claim that their muscle turned into fat. You can lose muscle and gain fat but the muscle didn't somehow mysteriously turn into fat and vice versa.

                  Muscle does not turn to fat and fat does not turn to muscle.

                  I see a lot of guys abandoning the bulk/cut/bulk/cut/bulk/cut mentality. I didn't mean it was wrong to do, to each his own. The go-to for bulking has always seemed to be deca. I was never a fan of deca, nor would I run any cycle without testosterone. NPP on the other hand is a compound I love. If I was looking to "bulk" then NPP would be my choice because you can gain muscle while keeping the fat gain to a minimum, depending on diet of course. With tren, however, I find that you can add muscle without gaining much fat at all. You have to eat all the way through the cycle which can be tough because for me it curbs appetite. You have to be mindful of that effect and force yourself to eat.

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                  • #24
                    im actually sleeping more on cycle with tren than I was prior. It has not given me insomnia at all because by the time its 7pm I can barely keep my eyes open. It's having a seriously negative affect on my relationship because im literally too tired to even have sex. My aggression is in check and im not having anger issues. Only thing is how frustrating it becoming just to stay awake at night
                    im not real and nothing i say matters.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ripitup View Post

                      I agree. There are multiple ways to skin the cat. However, I hear a lot of guys say that they are going to bulk up which normally includes fat gain and gives an even larger appearance. So you're gaining muscle and gaining fat. The muscle gain, combined with the fat gain gives you your bulk cycle. Then you hear people saying that after the bulk they will convert the fat to muscle which is not even possible because fat doesn't turn into muscle, the same way muscle doesn't turn to fat. How many times have you heard someone say that they stopped working out for whatever reason, maybe an injury, and then due to not being able to work out combined with potentially not sticking clean eating, they claim that their muscle turned into fat. You can lose muscle and gain fat but the muscle didn't somehow mysteriously turn into fat and vice versa.

                      Muscle does not turn to fat and fat does not turn to muscle.

                      I see a lot of guys abandoning the bulk/cut/bulk/cut/bulk/cut mentality. I didn't mean it was wrong to do, to each his own. The go-to for bulking has always seemed to be deca. I was never a fan of deca, nor would I run any cycle without testosterone. NPP on the other hand is a compound I love. If I was looking to "bulk" then NPP would be my choice because you can gain muscle while keeping the fat gain to a minimum, depending on diet of course. With tren, however, I find that you can add muscle without gaining much fat at all. You have to eat all the way through the cycle which can be tough because for me it curbs appetite. You have to be mindful of that effect and force yourself to eat.
                      All I know is that if I gain a bunch of weight off cycle or on a cruise dose, even if some of that weight is fat (though there's also lbm in there to be sure, and my strength goes up), then I actually gain even more weight when I jump on some sort of tren cycle, at the same time that my body composition changes and I get very lean. For example, say I start at 240, cruising, and I eat like a maniac and gain some strength, size, weight, and admittedly fat. A couple of months of this might bring me to 250. Not extremely "ripped," or anything, but with some quality lbm and good definition. It is much easier for me to eat big and gain weight when off cycle or on a cruise. It just is. Then, I jump on tren and maybe some other compounds, and after a few months of that, I am at 260, and much, much, leaner than I was when I began at 250. Eventually, though, I simply cannot make anymore gains, or gain weight, etc., and it's time to come off again. I'm not saying that tren converts fat to muscle, but I don't tend to lose weight on it, and my body composition does tend to improve dramatically.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ripitup View Post

                        I agree. There are multiple ways to skin the cat. However, I hear a lot of guys say that they are going to bulk up which normally includes fat gain and gives an even larger appearance. So you're gaining muscle and gaining fat. The muscle gain, combined with the fat gain gives you your bulk cycle. Then you hear people saying that after the bulk they will convert the fat to muscle which is not even possible because fat doesn't turn into muscle, the same way muscle doesn't turn to fat. How many times have you heard someone say that they stopped working out for whatever reason, maybe an injury, and then due to not being able to work out combined with potentially not sticking clean eating, they claim that their muscle turned into fat. You can lose muscle and gain fat but the muscle didn't somehow mysteriously turn into fat and vice versa.

                        Muscle does not turn to fat and fat does not turn to muscle.

                        I see a lot of guys abandoning the bulk/cut/bulk/cut/bulk/cut mentality. I didn't mean it was wrong to do, to each his own. The go-to for bulking has always seemed to be deca. I was never a fan of deca, nor would I run any cycle without testosterone. NPP on the other hand is a compound I love. If I was looking to "bulk" then NPP would be my choice because you can gain muscle while keeping the fat gain to a minimum, depending on diet of course. With tren, however, I find that you can add muscle without gaining much fat at all. You have to eat all the way through the cycle which can be tough because for me it curbs appetite. You have to be mindful of that effect and force yourself to eat.
                        What does npp do for you that deca doesnt? I am going to try some npp soon. I was expecting similar results as deca. I just wanted a shorter ester so I can push the dose up and get it out of my system quick if gyno cant be controlled. Most I ran with deca before was 200mg per week and I needed 20mg nolva ed. I want to try 400mg of nandro with test and 600mg nandro without test.
                        Inspector Jacques Clouseau: "There is a time to laugh and a time not to laugh, and this is not one of them."

                        "If i want to use a suppliment i take steroids"- Stomp

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Kluso View Post
                          Tren should not make u tired. Usually the opposite. Some guys call it trensomnia. Lol
                          Tren makes me so tired during the day and then I can't sleep from 2-5am. The lethargy during the day is so bad it's all I can do to drag my butt to the gym. Modafinil and Espresso pair well with 600mg of Tren/wk.

                          If Ripitup is looking to bulk then Decca is my gear of choice. 600mg of Decca/wk and you'll bloat for sure, but about 3 weeks in I start to put on mass like nobody's business. If you eat enough, train hard then some Test and 600mg/wk of Decca should be plenty. You can run NPP, but who wants to pin EOD? I find the bloat just as bad on NPP as Decca.





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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by evenflow View Post

                            Tren makes me so tired during the day and then I can't sleep from 2-5am. The lethargy during the day is so bad it's all I can do to drag my butt to the gym. Modafinil and Espresso pair well with 600mg of Tren/wk.

                            If Ripitup is looking to bulk then Decca is my gear of choice. 600mg of Decca/wk and you'll bloat for sure, but about 3 weeks in I start to put on mass like nobody's business. If you eat enough, train hard then some Test and 600mg/wk of Decca should be plenty. You can run NPP, but who wants to pin EOD? I find the bloat just as bad on NPP as Decca.




                            Yeah, guess it can. I dont usually run very high doses of tren but can see how it can make someone lethargic
                            Inspector Jacques Clouseau: "There is a time to laugh and a time not to laugh, and this is not one of them."

                            "If i want to use a suppliment i take steroids"- Stomp

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