Beginner help

ea-poe

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#1
Hey guys.
I cannot believe the board gods finally answered my prayers.
Thanks Zeus!!!
I’ve wanted to learn about serious deadlifting for a long time other than YouTube vids.
My deadlift is 600
Squat 500
Bench 415

I’ve never competed. But want to and am not sure which direction to go as far as a training regiment.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. For those of you that do, let me know what works for you guys.
 

chicken_hawk

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#2
Well, the best way would be to find some other pler via social media etc. The primary reason for that would be to attend a meet and learn the lifts and flow of the meets. I say this because many first time lifters who go it on there own bomb at least one lift. The last one I was at one kid missed his squat opener and had to pack his bags. He was a dumbass though. Another meet I was at a girl bombed her bench even though she could handle the weight. It was an uspa meet and they have three commands for the bench, she missed a different command on each attempt. So, it happens a bunch.

As far as training goes, I would stay away from generic templates like 531 or 5x5 and research RTS or JTS. These programs are customized for you specifically by trainers who actually know science and have experience.

Hawk
 

dnok

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#3
Just shooting by, finally and interesting sub forum lol. I'm going to be all over this section like a rash lol.

Anyway, best bit of advice your ever going to get regarding your deadlift. Go buy a trap bar.
You can thank me later :cool:
 

dnok

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#4
Openers should NEVER be an issue because openers should never be hard. They are a confidence boosting setting stone and nothing more. It should be a lift you know you will do without question. The added fear and adrenaline from being on the competition platform will make that fucker fly. If it doesn't then either your coach is a dumbass or your going about things wrong.

There's so many tips to think of they stumbling over themselves to get outa my head lol. Little hacks like train with bumper plates where possible because they are inherently less stable. They cause wobble throughout the lift which forces you (in training) to over compensate at keeping things rigid. Then come competition day where they use proper plates everything just seems so much stable and easier with the same weight lol.

In training do Hatfield squats with a safety bar rather than traditional squats. Say hello to working with weights WAY above what you could normally train with. Bye bye old one rep max. Only reintroduce the traditional squat around 3 to 4 weeks out from comp just to repractice the skill element. Don't worry skill is the fastest of all attributes to learn.
Same goes for deadlift. Use the trap bar.

Have a trusted source evaluate your lifting techniques. Often form tweaks by a good eye can smash through a pb on their own.

Have a routine tailored for you BUT be honest and be realistic. Will you really be able to commit to 4 sessions a week? Can your sessions be on differing days each week? Do they need to be set in stone say Mon Tues Thurs Fri? If so make it known and plan around it. Yes there may be a slightly better way for your planner to structure you but is it practical? Will you stick with it long term? Or will it drag you down and make other life commitments difficult? Because I guarantee you the difference in stress levels will make the difference.

Have your competitive bodyweight dialled in at least 12 weeks before any comp! What is this bullshit? I hear you say. Well, can you really maximise a peaking routine while trying to cut weight?........ I'll let you digest that one for a bit.

Avoid water depletion tricks etc like the plague. Going into a comp feeling foggy, run down, fucked up. Yeah cos that's the perfect mindset for hitting new highs lmao.

I dunno man I could go on and on but I have work to do. Hit me up if you want some input.
 

dnok

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#5
Oh yeah a good one is the rep calling as mentioned above. That's an easy one to sort out. Either train with a friend and towards the back of the peaking program (should be structured in) your comp lifts are called out and performed exactly as on the day. If you train alone simply record yourself saying the commands and play em back during training. Obviously not as effective as someone saying it because they can change the tempo at which they call out the commands but it still gets the job done and trains you to wait and respond to the commands. It matters quite a lot to be honest as your body automatically fires up to each word once trained. It totally removes the overthinking on comp day
 

chicken_hawk

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#6
Openers should NEVER be an issue because openers should never be hard. They are a confidence boosting setting stone and nothing more. It should be a lift you know you will do without question. The added fear and adrenaline from being on the competition platform will make that fucker fly. If it doesn't then either your coach is a dumbass or your going about things wrong.

There's so many tips to think of they stumbling over themselves to get outa my head lol. Little hacks like train with bumper plates where possible because they are inherently less stable. They cause wobble throughout the lift which forces you (in training) to over compensate at keeping things rigid. Then come competition day where they use proper plates everything just seems so much stable and easier with the same weight lol.

In training do Hatfield squats with a safety bar rather than traditional squats. Say hello to working with weights WAY above what you could normally train with. Bye bye old one rep max. Only reintroduce the traditional squat around 3 to 4 weeks out from comp just to repractice the skill element. Don't worry skill is the fastest of all attributes to learn.
Same goes for deadlift. Use the trap bar.

Have a trusted source evaluate your lifting techniques. Often form tweaks by a good eye can smash through a pb on their own.

Have a routine tailored for you BUT be honest and be realistic. Will you really be able to commit to 4 sessions a week? Can your sessions be on differing days each week? Do they need to be set in stone say Mon Tues Thurs Fri? If so make it known and plan around it. Yes there may be a slightly better way for your planner to structure you but is it practical? Will you stick with it long term? Or will it drag you down and make other life commitments difficult? Because I guarantee you the difference in stress levels will make the difference.

Have your competitive bodyweight dialled in at least 12 weeks before any comp! What is this bullshit? I hear you say. Well, can you really maximise a peaking routine while trying to cut weight?........ I'll let you digest that one for a bit.

Avoid water depletion tricks etc like the plague. Going into a comp feeling foggy, run down, fucked up. Yeah cos that's the perfect mindset for hitting new highs lmao.

I dunno man I could go on and on but I have work to do. Hit me up if you want some input.

Some great vet tips. Thanks dnok, some I have already learned the hard way LOL. But it's the first I have heard of the Hatfield and trap bar technique, which I will be trying when I get back to lifting (I have been working nights on the gym). Anyway, a sincere question, how do you feel about GTG type routines like Sheiko or other Eastern templates as it appears you lean more towards top weight vs technique?

Hawk
 

dnok

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#7
Everything has its place for certain. For example my bro in law (elite) landed himself an injury that limited benching. Not a problem. I want you to do 100 (yes really) presses (10 sets of 10) with 60kg, his 1rm at the time was around 200kg or 440lbs to you folks.
Had him reset after each rep, and perform each rep as an explosive single. He did that 3 times a week for a few weeks. Long story after a short peaking once we could get weight back on him he added 10kg to his bench. I attribute that to rate coding and familiarity within the movement.

Regarding Sheiko it could be useful to anybody but I think in particular an elite lifter looking for those next brutally hard gains. It puts you right out of your comfort zone often training in ranges you'll have never trained before which stimulates new fitness and growth levels. It also adds an overall fitness that someone who's traditionally pounded through limited sets of 3 and 5 reps with main competition lifts usually performed on different days could very well be lacking. There is of course the hypertrophy adaptations brought about by the working weight percentage.
There is a lot to pick over regarding it but as with many styles it certainly has its place and used at the RIGHT time is undoubtedly a tool to keep in the box. Same for smolov. Smolov is a weapon. Not one to be abused but at the right time in one's career it's gains can be unprecedented.

It would take far more time than I have to pick over the differences of training stimuli be it neuro muscular, rate coding, hypertrophy, start strength, skeletal muscle weaknesses, general fitness conditioning blahdy blah blah to even begin to dig into why lots of methods work yet lots of methods differ. I will say one thing though if it comes out of Russia then it's worth a read at least lol :cool:
 

dnok

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#8
Another tip to hammer home! NEVER use a safety squat bar as is shown in the attached picture. You CAN if you are WANTING to target your quads I suppose but I'm talking to powerlifters here NOT bodybuilders.
It's pointless and to be honest dangerous if your working heavy. Your normal 1rm unless you lift severely quad dominant will feel horrendously heavy and it will try and pull you forward and cause havoc with your stance. Respect those knees man.

Use it properly. Do the Hatfield squats and say hello to much more working weigh. Imagine been able to stick an extra 100lbs on the squat bar and train with it safely FOR REPS!!! Are we seeing the gains potential yet? :cool:
 

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dnok

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#10
Just to add regarding sheiko. It depends on what variation or who's variation of sheiko you are thinking of also. Not sure if you know but it's originally a guide from which he individualised each of his competitors routines. Theres not such a thing as "his original peaking routine" etc etc. I pretty sure that still to this day the programs you see plastered around the internet are other people's interpretations of his work and not his own actual work
 

chicken_hawk

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#11
Just to add regarding sheiko. It depends on what variation or who's variation of sheiko you are thinking of also. Not sure if you know but it's originally a guide from which he individualised each of his competitors routines. Theres not such a thing as "his original peaking routine" etc etc. I pretty sure that still to this day the programs you see plastered around the internet are other people's interpretations of his work and not his own actual work
First, dnok thanks for taking the time. Second, it's a rare pleasure to meet someone who knows more than myself. Not bragging just so many know so little. I truly benefited from JTS scientific principals of strength training. Maybe not the Bible but possibly some common ground. It was the first thing I read that helped me understand my experiences with various training protocols. I am reasonably read, but have moderate experience and have only been pling 6 years. Ha ha who starts at 40, but what the hell.

I had decent results with greasing the groove in a few circumstances, had a 600 pull(good for me, my best) never doing more than 405 for reps. On the other hand I have seen benefits from other types of stimulation as well. For me personally I feel I would greatly benefit from the confidence that comes from heavy weights. That is where I struggle the most imo. I only have five meets under my belt so that has only exposed me to so much training. Then between life(husband, 3 kids, self employed) and shoulder issues I have feel that is my biggest weakness. Like, I have the capacity to do more but need more controlled exposure.

Anyway, I suck at typing but if you want to type this guy is all ears. I feel the Hatfield squat and when needed the mono (so I can get my hands out further) will continue to remedy my shoulder issues (made good progress in the past 6 months). Please keep the tips and advice coming. Also, I ain't afraid to be wrong so bring it on.

Oops , thread hijacked,
Hawk
 

dnok

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#12
Just wanted to quick reply before I start work. It's never too late to start look at how old Fred Hatfield was when he hit his records lol.

Anyway, regarding shoulders and life struggles. We sound like twins lol. Mate the safety bar will enlighten your life. Squats ruin your shoulders over time. The safety bar gets rid of all that. Just train solely with a safety squat bar and do some shoulder rehab prehab work daily. Not sure if you've seen the routine I use and recommend? If not I'll gladly post it up for you to look over.

Once you've gained full range of motions back then you shouldn't aggravate things again once you go back to traditional squats in the run up competition. Also look for a book called supple leapord. It will become your Bible. If you want an electronic version I can send via email or WhatsApp etc.

Right duty calls man speak soon
 
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#13
Just wanted to quick reply before I start work. It's never too late to start look at how old Fred Hatfield was when he hit his records lol.

Anyway, regarding shoulders and life struggles. We sound like twins lol. Mate the safety bar will enlighten your life. Squats ruin your shoulders over time. The safety bar gets rid of all that. Just train solely with a safety squat bar and do some shoulder rehab prehab work daily. Not sure if you've seen the routine I use and recommend? If not I'll gladly post it up for you to look over.

Once you've gained full range of motions back then you shouldn't aggravate things again once you go back to traditional squats in the run up competition. Also look for a book called supple leapord. It will become your Bible. If you want an electronic version I can send via email or WhatsApp etc.

Right duty calls man speak soon
Thanks for the reply my man and I would love to see your template. I have a serious passion for programming. And I too have to run to the gym and meet someone but know of Kelly Starett, but don't have the book but follow some of Super D's stuff too. Those have helped but I would love to bench without pain caused by squatting.

My wife is giving me the look.

Let's pick it up later and thank you,
Hawk
 
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#15

dnok

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#16
Anytime brother, I sincerely hope they of some use to you, or anyone else of course.

Another good heads up for anyone not yet familiar with it is the thera cane. They only cheap but fucking hell they are good. Painfully but great. Amazing for tension release etc. Look em up if your not familiar. A definite must have product for muscular issues.

To you though Hawk, honestly once you get into the Hatfield squats with a safety bar you'll never look back.

Oh shit yeah! Another good one if I've not already mentioned it!!
Step up squats.
Think of this......
Let's say you weigh 200lbs and you put 200lbs on the bar to squat. Your legs are moving 400lbs. So we can say each leg is moving 200lbs. With me?
Right, now let's say you only put 100lbs on the bar (let's forget about bar weight plz it's just an example) but now instead of squatting you do a step up onto a box etc. Your only using one leg and it's PISS EASY but now that one leg I'd moving 300lbs!!!
BOOM!! Easy leg hack for way more gains lol :cool:
 

dnok

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#17
"one leg is moving" it should say above. This fucking spell check on my phone got me again the bastard
 
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#18
Anytime brother, I sincerely hope they of some use to you, or anyone else of course.

Another good heads up for anyone not yet familiar with it is the thera cane. They only cheap but fucking hell they are good. Painfully but great. Amazing for tension release etc. Look em up if your not familiar. A definite must have product for muscular issues.

To you though Hawk, honestly once you get into the Hatfield squats with a safety bar you'll never look back.

Oh shit yeah! Another good one if I've not already mentioned it!!
Step up squats.
Think of this......
Let's say you weigh 200lbs and you put 200lbs on the bar to squat. Your legs are moving 400lbs. So we can say each leg is moving 200lbs. With me?
Right, now let's say you only put 100lbs on the bar (let's forget about bar weight plz it's just an example) but now instead of squatting you do a step up onto a box etc. Your only using one leg and it's PISS EASY but now that one leg I'd moving 300lbs!!!
BOOM!! Easy leg hack for way more gains lol :cool:
Man, I have a theracane and a little wooden ball that help a lot. I have made improvements for sure, it's just that dam low bar that gets me and I think I have some real serratus instability.

I think my best bet is to post up my intended routine and help me hash it out as long as you don't critique me going single ply now ;)

Hawk
 

dnok

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#19
Lmfao I'll reserve my judgement just for you lol. Nah I'm not here to be disrespectful man :)
Mate if I can offer any help of any sense I'll do so gladly. I don't help anybody these days as it got too time consuming so I'm an open door man. You can have all the free time I've got :cool:
 

dnok

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#20
Actually that's a slight lie as I'm still on the brother in law's team as he is the other half of my training life and the co author of our work. He's usually the test bed as well for routines before we pass them on.

I have one that's showing great promise and is the one he's using coming up to his next comp in 4 weeks. At current progression he should be at his strongest pound for pound ever. Not strongest ever as he has come down from 105kg to 98kg but strongest pound for pound.

If it's of any interest to you in the future I'd be prepared to share it with you privately :cool:
 
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