Raw or equipped.

dnok

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#1
Yes I really did just open that can of worms lol.

So what is your style? Or if not a competitor what's your preference between the two? And how do you feel about the other?

Be honest and be respectful of other people's views. And by that I don't mean hold back your views, if you have an opinion have the balls to stand by it. When I say be respectful I mean don't go getting all butt hurt and offended when you see a view you don't agree with. If you don't can't handle a bit of criticism then just don't post lol.

So let's have at it. I'm in the raw camp. Belt and knee sleeves at the most. I can't be doing with all that suited up bullshit. It's meaningless. It's about how well you can use the suit not how strong you are. I believe the sport should be pure and be about the man and the iron.

That said I respect anyone with the balls to get up on stage to be tested in full view of a crowd and I respect anyone with the dedication to get themselves in the gym time and time again.

So where do you stand? :cool: (let the abuse begin lol)
 

dnok

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#3
Good man, finally someone stepped forward.
And no this isn't a chance to pop off at equipped lifters lol, just my standpoint. Was hoping to get a feel for who does what around here. No firing squad at dawn I promise lol :cool:
 

mydognuke

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#4
Weeeeellllllll I dont think any shots could be fired at a raw lifter anyways 🤣 not much shit to talk imo lol. 😬
 

chicken_hawk

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#5
Ok, so let the criticism begin LOL. I have done 5 raw meets and even set a master's record in the uspa which stood for a week ha ha. But, I am thinking about switching and have trained in the gear. I have a single ply Titan fury and centurian briefs. Say, what you want and I will listen just remember I'm not a total noob. In reality I feel that gear adds not only an additional level of difficulty but also ups the intensity. To get an idea of what I mean, try some knee wraps and make them tight. You can get more weight but they change your groove and you have to get used to the additional weight.

Now, add 100 lbs on the bar and just unrack the bench press. It's freaking tough and scary. It's a ton of pressure on your body and regardless of the what the inexperienced may tell you, the gear doesn't do all the work. If you want to lift more you have to get stronger. The addition of when to use the gear adds additional complication as well.

Some even say the best lifters in the world are geared lifters. A 900lb single ply squatter is still an 800 lb raw so keep that in mind as well. My buddy Rich is a 900 triple play and has done 600 raw at meets. There are some exceptions, but That's not the rule.

Hawk
 

dnok

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#6
No doubting there are some strong guys amongst equipped lifters man. And I think I made mention to it maybe being cultural because in UK the scene is a joke. Or at least, in the feds I've spent time around they are. Just useless nob heads pretending to be strong when they couldn't lift a pencil without a suit lol. And I hear you on the extra weight on the bar. I get a feel for that myself using a slingshot or the safety bar and doing Hatfield squats as the amount I can put on the bar in either case is a lot more than I would with a comp lift and the loading through the joints is intense.

In regards to your training make sure you angle your training towards making use of your suit. You want to be incorporating wide stance box squats and some wide grip bench etc. Look to things like Westside barbell as their work is very well suited, if not designed, for a suited lifter.
And this is a hypothetical as I've never worn a suit but I'm guessing, if you can get a usable groove, that Hatfield squats while suited (or at least your lower half in the suit) would see you working with some massive weights and really force some adaptation. If used in the right manner for a short period as a variation during a max loading phase it could be a serious tool. Would certainly dampen inhibition from the Golgi tendon and when it came to performing a standard comp lift unracking etc should feel easy and certainly give you a mental edge. Rather than thinking fuck fuck fuck that's heavy you just like meh this is nothing lol.

Respect for finally stepping into the thread anyway man. You'll get no shots fired from me lol :cool:
 

chicken_hawk

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#7
No doubting there are some strong guys amongst equipped lifters man. And I think I made mention to it maybe being cultural because in UK the scene is a joke. Or at least, in the feds I've spent time around they are. Just useless nob heads pretending to be strong when they couldn't lift a pencil without a suit lol. And I hear you on the extra weight on the bar. I get a feel for that myself using a slingshot or the safety bar and doing Hatfield squats as the amount I can put on the bar in either case is a lot more than I would with a comp lift and the loading through the joints is intense.

In regards to your training make sure you angle your training towards making use of your suit. You want to be incorporating wide stance box squats and some wide grip bench etc. Look to things like Westside barbell as their work is very well suited, if not designed, for a suited lifter.
And this is a hypothetical as I've never worn a suit but I'm guessing, if you can get a usable groove, that Hatfield squats while suited (or at least your lower half in the suit) would see you working with some massive weights and really force some adaptation. If used in the right manner for a short period as a variation during a max loading phase it could be a serious tool. Would certainly dampen inhibition from the Golgi tendon and when it came to performing a standard comp lift unracking etc should feel easy and certainly give you a mental edge. Rather than thinking fuck fuck fuck that's heavy you just like meh this is nothing lol.

Respect for finally stepping into the thread anyway man. You'll get no shots fired from me lol :cool:
Well, it's the same in the states, but only with this new wave of ppers who don't know the history of American pling. There was a time in the states when you couldn't find a raw meet. But the abuses of the gear had a backlash and gave it a bad name. Combine that with what you said, some noob jumping straight into triple play and squatting 500 with pencil legs makes geared lifting look stupid. But, for the more mature we understand the differences and respect all pling.

And I agree that the Hatfield should help tremendously. I have (keep in mind I've only trained in my suit 3X and then 2 months off with this gym) yet to come close to depth. Maybe half at best. If the weight is too light you loose balance when the suit starts to kick in and slows you down. However, the heavier weight I'm not used to yet. My raw best is 605lbs but it's not like I train with that so going mid 600s is taxing. So I think the Hatfield's will be a tremendous help.

Only problem is I need to get our ss bar fixed. Idiots who built it made the handles on the same angle as the bends at the end of the bar so it kills your neck with anything mover 225 lbs.

Hawk
 

dnok

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#8
Wtf? Did you buy it new or have it made? That's so dumb lol.

Regarding not being able to hit depth in your suit have you tried squatting straps down? :cool:
 

chicken_hawk

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#9
Wtf? Did you buy it new or have it made? That's so dumb lol.

Regarding not being able to hit depth in your suit have you tried squatting straps down? :cool:
Well, it was part of the gym equipment I bought. And he bought it himself and who would have thought the manufacturer was that stupid?

Sure, have buddy. But not sure how other suits are but straps down is basically like having no suit on at all. Well, it still squeezes the crap out of your junk LOL. For the sake of other reading who like me may have no experience with gear. The gear basically compresses your body. It doesn't really stretch...it squeezes and it hurts. If you squat straps down then it can't pull on your shoulders and loses all assistance. At least my single ply doesn't.

Hawk
 

dnok

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#10
Yeah perhaps it's the single ply that makes the difference. It's just I recall lads talking about working up raw then going straps down once they where near maxed raw then going fully suited.

You need to start doing some supramax work then to get accustomed to more weight. Tolerance too it will vary but you only need between 5 and 10 exposures to supramax for it to be effective each session.
Simple heavy holds will do. As heavy as possible.
Just lift the bar off the hooks and stand with it for 5 to 10 seconds. Repeat that 5 to 10 times.

Also the suit will break in the more you use it so just keep training in it mate. The half depth will soon become full depth even with similar weight.
And have you considered getting a second suit? Because the best way to go about it is to train in a suit until it is JUST broken in to allow depth and then put that suit to one side and keep it for comp day. That means you'll be getting the maximum possible help from the suit at comp when it's needed.
You then continue training in an old suit, or in your case your second suit. I know that'll mean breaking in two suits but in the long term it'll pay off better for you :cool:
 
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#11
First, I got the ssb fixed and it only cost me a case of beer...true story. I was thinking of using the Hatfield to break in the suit and I would definitely get another suit for the reasons you mentioned. I thought I would do my first equipped meet with gear that was broken in just to get used to it and make the attempts. Thoughts?

At the moment I am seriously detrained (missed 2 months) so I thought I would lift unequipped for a few weeks to regain my raw strength. I did bench yesterday and did two holds but didn't realize 5 plus was the goal. I had already began thinking about this during my last squat session before my break as I was shaking and scared. I was suddenly working with my all time best and above. I was freaking out and on top the top of that the bar kept slipping down my back on my suit and was killing my shoulders. Fortunately, the time off allowed my shoulders to loosen up so we'll see.

I also have another question and that concerns my split. Currently, my plan is:
Sat: squat equipped
M: bench equipped
T: dl
Th: accessories
Problem is that equipped lifting takes so much out of me I don't have much gas for raw work. But adding a second raw day adds more volume than I am currently used to. I am not opposed to anything, but it may take my mid 40's body a while to adapt LOL

Hawk
 

dnok

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#12
Ok I'm short on time but didn't want to leave you hanging (or the pm you sent) so just letting you know I'll be back with detailed responses soon mate :cool:
 

dnok

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#13
First, I got the ssb fixed and it only cost me a case of beer...true story. I was thinking of using the Hatfield to break in the suit and I would definitely get another suit for the reasons you mentioned. I thought I would do my first equipped meet with gear that was broken in just to get used to it and make the attempts. Thoughts?
How long away is your first meet? Obviously the main advice would be as original, train in one and comp in other although I'm sensing that you may need to do as you said to regain your personal confidence. Personally if it was me I would build that confidence in the gym and not be in such a rush to get back on stage.

At the moment I am seriously detrained (missed 2 months) so I thought I would lift unequipped for a few weeks to regain my raw strength.
2 months isn't terrible. If anything it will have given your body chance to realise the gains from training before the break and for any small issues to heal up. I do think that it is a smart idea to lift raw for a while though. In fact, in my personal opinion I feel like you are rushing into wanting to compete in your suit. I would personally play a longer game and start out by giving yourself some general conditioning for a while and start working on the rotators, stabilizers, core, hips, knees, lats and shoulders to avoid any nasty surprises as the weight increases and set yourself a solid foundation.
I did bench yesterday and did two holds but didn't realize 5 plus was the goal. I had already began thinking about this during my last squat session before my break as I was shaking and scared. Dianabol preworkout and start thinking about people you'd like to stab, should take care of the fear lol. In all seriousness though (although that pretty much was) if your catch bars are set correctly what is there to fear? If it's injury you fear, unless you get a serious pain, then you need to wipe that shit from your mind brother. You can't let it enter your head. Make sure your equipment is set right and have faith in yourself. Again you need to build that confidence and that takes me back to the above prep stage and raw working after that to get your mindset back into gear also.
I was suddenly working with my all time best and above. I was freaking out and on top the top of that the bar kept slipping down my back on my suit and was killing my shoulders.
Can you video your squat sessions? A side view or just slightly off to the rear so can easily see side profile and bar lay across back. I think this could be a stance issue but you need to get on top of this whatever it turns out to be. I've been there and had the bar disappear down my back taking my left shoulder with it! OUCH!! Wasn't pretty.
Fortunately, the time off allowed my shoulders to loosen up so we'll see.
The shoulder routine my man! Needs must. I'm sooooo quilty of neglecting it too though lol. I have something new to add to that routine actually, this has just reminded me.

I also have another question and that concerns my split. Currently, my plan is:
Sat: squat equipped
M: bench equipped
T: dl
Th: accessories
Problem is that equipped lifting takes so much out of me I don't have much gas for raw work. But adding a second raw day adds more volume than I am currently used to. I am not opposed to anything, but it may take my mid 40's body a while to adapt LOL
Fred Hatfield got his record at 45 man. Age is just a number. I call it prime time and intend to be stronger than ever at 45. I sense negativity when you write. You need to drop that shit bro. Focus on your goal and tell yourself it's already real. Believe in yourself brother, no one else will. Use negativity in your life as fuel, look upon the pencil necks of this world with disgust and gaze down upon the world from your high horse knowing you are the mother fucking boss.
And volume, strength, power can all be trained at the same time if done smartly which leads me into the routine I'll post shortly but I do think you need to step back, look at your bigger picture, look at the weights needed to compete suited, where your at training wise and ask yourself if training raw for the recent future might be the smarter option for now :cool:


Hawk
 

dnok

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#14
Regarding the video I asked for a dead side on video would be great to track bar path etc and one from the rear that can clearly show the lay of the bar, hand spacing blahdy blah blah would be optimal
 
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